The Boring Middle

Join Bri and Dr. Jay, CFP® as they embark on a rollercoaster ride through the perilous terrain of the boring middle—a place where budgets clash, impulses run wild, and chicken nuggets become the center of existential crises.

In this episode, they lift the curtain on the hidden dramas lurking beneath the surface of financial planning. From late-night panic texts over shoe purchases to heated debates about grocery budgets, they reveal the hilarious and heartwarming realities of managing money as a childfree couple.

But fear not, dear listener! Amidst the chaos, they share invaluable insights and belly laughs as they navigate the choppy waters of financial responsibility. With wit, wisdom, and a sprinkle of sarcasm, they show how even the most mundane moments can teach us profound lessons about control, communication, and the true cost of chicken nuggets.

So grab your popcorn (or chicken nuggets, if you dare), and get ready to join the fun-filled journey through the boring middle with the Childfree Wealth® podcast. Because when it comes to finances, who said it couldn't be entertaining?

Resources:

+ Book: Portraits of Childfree Wealth by Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®

+ Book: A Random Walk Down Wall Street by Burton G. Malkiel

​​The Childfree Wealth Podcast, hosted by Bri Conn and Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®, is a financial and lifestyle podcast that explores the unique perspectives and concerns of childfree individuals and couples.

Like the show? Leave us a rating & review. If you want to join the conversation, email us at podcast@childfreewealth.com, follow Childfree Wealth® on social media, or visit our website www.childfreewealth.com!

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Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational & entertainment purposes. Please consult your advisor before implementing any ideas heard on this podcast.

Transcript

Dr. Jay

Hey Childfree Wealth® listeners, we are going to talk about one of the more dangerous moments in your finance. Dun dun dun. That is the boring middle. Okay. Bri just laughed at me for that. But hey, come on. Like we can have fun.

Bri

We’ll add some spooky music.

Dr. Jay

The boring middle is one of those things that I watch out for with clients all the time. And it's one that I've fallen in. It's one that others fall near. We're actually going to use the story from Bri like what it is like you get out a plan, the plan is moving. All you have to do is sit there and do nothing. Just let the plan work through and you will reach your goal.

Bri

We're not good at that as humans.

Dr. Jay

Yeah. What really happens is drama. Okay, something will happen. Bri, do you want to share your story? You want me to share your story?

Bri

I think you should share because I think it is just a different perspective.

Dr. Jay

If I'm working with Bri and her wife on their finances and the goal is to get out of debt. So we've had the discussions about getting out of debt. We've talked about, you know, picking up extra work and time and money and budgeting. And we have a system and a structure for it. Cool. And two months go by or so.

They're putting a whole lot of money towards a debt. Like seeing the numbers coming down, we're seeing the net worth actually hit zero, which is an awesome goal. It went from negative to zero and then I get a freaked out chat text, whatever. Ahh, everything's going wrong. Like the world's coming to an end. Ahhh! And, you know, this is going to be the end of the world. I’m like what the heck?! By the way, it's like 9:00 at night, I get one of these random texts.

I'm like, what did I do? What's going on? I meet with Bri and her wife and I'm like, what is it? And the issue was a pair of shoes and airpods, I guess technically.

Bri

It started with the chicken nuggets.

Dr. Jay

Well, no, the chicken. No, you. We'll get to the chicken nuggets in a second. And it's like this. You gave me the shoes first.

Bri

Yeah, that's true.

Dr. Jay

And I was like, what? And what we do in budgets, we set I think I'll pocket money, spending money, whatever to spend on whatever. And Bri’s wife was like, this is ridiculous. I make all this money. I should be able to afford a pair of shoes. I don't have shoes. I can't walk around. I have no shoes. My AirPods are falling out. I don't have any AirPods. I’ve got nothing. Is this not the discussion?

Bri

Yeah. This is accurate.

Dr. Jay

Yet. I'm like, how much money are we talking about? It's like a couple hundred bucks. I'm like, you're saving thousands towards your debt. If you need to take 200 bucks for, like, getting your brain in the right place for debt just by the damn shoes. And then they go on for about another half an hour complaining about budgeting and debt.

Is that fair, Bri?

Bri

Yes, that's fair. By the way, we did ask her if we could talk about this before I made this podcast, and she said yes. And you also need to talk about her hair.

Dr. Jay

So like it would have been funnier if we didn't ask her, but that's okay. I'm like, what are we doing right? So we go through this whole thing, get past the shoes. Fine. Now I get another crazy text. I think the world's coming to an end again, and I'm like, oh, boy, what is it? So, like, we didn't even have time to set up a meeting.

Like, literally, we meet like half an hour before clients. I'm like, what's going on? Bri’s all upset. Finally, she brings her wife in and I'm like, what's the issue? Well, the issue is they had spent the grocery money but couldn't afford the chicken cutlets that are breaded in the chicken nuggets instead of the regular chicken.

Bri

We could… No, we could afford it, but we had gone over our grocery budget so we didn't have any money left. And I like there’s only a few days left of the month. It was like, we're not spending anymore.

Dr. Jay

I'm like, it's damn chicken nuggets. Like, I don't care. Like, $3, $7. I'll send you the $7 like…

Bri

He's like, you want me to Venmo you $7 right now?

Dr. Jay

I mean, no, literally I did say that.

So I'm pulling this apart and I'm like, what is going on now? What do you think was going on?

Bri

Bri I thought everything was ending and we were going to be done for and that prenup was going to be used.

Dr. Jay

Over frickin chicken nuggets.

Bri

Yeah. Sometimes we're not rational about our own stuff, it's okay to say that.

Dr. Jay

And by the way, that we had a discussion about hair and makeup and this is going to be more and I can't do this. I haven't done my hair in four. I'm like, hair, what? Like, I mean, I have razors that come once a month. Like, what does the hair cost? Like what? What are you talking about? Like, what is going on?

And I finally I step back and I'm like, oh, we're in the boring middle, okay? We're doing the debt stuff. We're moving through. This is drama coming from somewhere. And I said, okay, let me kind of work through this. And the diagnosis when I got to the end, right, by the way, I say was control issue. When you get on a budget, it's about who's managing the money and who gets to do it.

And saying, why you do and should I do this and that? It's not about nuggets. It's about control and change of life. Is that fair Bri?

Bri

Yes, that is fair. I no longer manage our budget.

Dr. Jay

Bri's answer was okay, their wife handles it by. We'll see how that experiment goes. That'll be another episode.

Bri

Yeah, she'll be out and don’t worry.

Dr. Jay

But here's the thing. $7 in chicken nuggets and literally text I got saying, I think we're going to get divorced. I'm like, what the hell? You know better than this, Bri.

Bri

Yes, we’re much more irrational about our own things than we are with other peoples, honestly.

Dr. Jay

And and this is the problem with the boring middle like literally $7. And, you know, that's as go blow up the budget and get divorced and the world's coming to an end.

Bri

Yep.

Dr. Jay

Any time somebody comes to me with a money issue, my argument is money is just a symptom. It's not the actual disease, not the actual problem. Now, they are people that barely have money.

If you're rent and ramen and barely making it, it is the money. Everybody else, it's something else. And what happens is our body is not really good at just chilling out. Now, I'm not going to say that Bri and her. Yeah I'm not gonna say Bri and her wife intentionally made drama, but what happened was because you're on a plan and things are moving and we're kind of just like, what do you have another year or so on that plan, probably?

Bri

Probably not. Probably by the time this comes out it will be close to done.

Dr. Jay

Yeah. So we had a couple months left. It just gets boring and your body is like, where's the drama from the money I was used to.

Bri

Mm hmm. Very true.

Dr. Jay

Now, you’ve got to see this from a financial planner standpoint. but I'm over. You're going. Okay, we did an entire plan. We got a whole structure for. It's working. Everything's good. Obviously, I'm evil because you can't have nuggets. In my head, I'm like, what went wrong? Like, and did I miss something? Did we not plan for a huge expense? Did we… No, it was other issues.

It was life that came in the way that's now destroying it. And by the way, what normally happens on this and Bri was close to it, is people just give up on the budget and just give up on the plan. 

Bri

I don't

Dr. Jay

Is that fair?

Bri

I wouldn’t say…

Dr. Jay

You were, like, ready to give up on everything.

Bri

No, that’s a little pushing it. I wasn't quite ready to give up on everything. I was like, screw this then. We're going to separate everything, which I like. I do not fundamentally believe that I am very much like to become one. You are in a team and you are in this together. When we do have disagreements, I'm like, hey, us versus the problem.

We're a team. But I don't know, I was just on something that week and not having it.

Dr. Jay

Okay this happens so much this is why I talk about 80% of your success with finances is your behaviors. This is where a financial planner earns their money. Okay, people kind of look at it, say, is it worth buying a financial planner and paying the money? And it's not it's not cheap. I'm just, it isn’t. This is where I earn my money.

Because if I can talk them off the ledge and work through it and by the way, we went through a whole thing and, you know, they got book assignments and they got structures and systems and you don't have to love it. But are you in a better place? Is the chicken nuggets?

Bri

Yes. And I even said to somebody the other day, I was like $50 or 50 years, like, pick your battles. Like I can be rational about it when it comes to other people, but we're not rational about ourselves.

Dr. Jay

We're a financial planner, helps is helping you from doing stupid stuff that you would not normally do. And it happens a lot in the boring middle. Let me give you another example, because I feel bad picking on Bri. Another great example is we follow simple passive long term investment strategies. Three funds, set it, and forget it.

So we'll do this strategy and then we'll get a couple of years into this and people like, oh, I want to invest in Iraqi dinars or like cryptocurrency or I want to move my money overseas, or I look, I'm like, what have you been watching on TV? Like, literally, I'll ask that question because that is common. I want to move it all to gold. I want to move it all to cash. I want to… I can't be invested in the stock market. I want to move all my money to international.

I’m like, “Hold up your plan has gotten you here and worked. What has changed that says, ‘hey, I need to change my financial plan?’” and they’re like, “Well, I read this” and I'm like, “Oh boy, well, that is true or false. It depends on the case. Here's why. And here's why it doesn't impact you.”

Particularly right now, politics are kind of one of those. I get random emails, phone calls randomly. “This is going to happen and I need to” and I'm like, “Hold on, you have a plan that fits you. Let's talk it through.” “Well, if I don't do this right this second,” I'm like, “You don't need to make a move right now.”

And it's all this drama that people add into their stuff. And by the way, I truly do believe social media is hurting on this because like all the things they get, clicks are like, you should do infinite banking and blah blah blah. And, you know, and I'm like, Oh, God, what are they selling this week?

Bri

Social media is not been good for… it's been some of it's been okay, but a lot of it has not been great. And I say that as someone who that was my job.

Dr. Jay

Yeah. Yeah. When we are in the boring middle, people just lose focus. You know. So when I did my book Portraits of Childfree Wealth, there's somebody in there and she was talking about her high tech financial plan, which it really wasn’t. Beautiful. She actually came over to the U.S. She grew up broke in another country, actually, I think it was Suze Orman and a few others she saw early on. She spent less than she made, maxed out her retirement account and never had any debt and retired, I think like 50 or something like that without a problem. No fancy stuff. Just put it in the whole stock market, set it, forget it. By the way, I don't know how she got through the boring middle without messing with it, but she did beautifully.

Simple, simple, simple. That simple path to wealth, it just works. But what people do is they tinker. Well, my friend got, you know, 100% return on X and I'm like and I don't mean literally X, I don't know a Twitter X thing, like when it ran out, like he's lost more money on that than we know what to do.

But I mean, like a random thing like that to something, you should do it. But the drama comes in because it's too simple. My goal is to make your finances boring, so that your life can be amazing. I want your finances to be boring, but then I got to be there to, like, grab you before you jump off a cliff.

What do you think, Bri?

Bri

That is very true. And I think it can be helpful to have, you know, money. You can just do whatever you want with to release some of that pent up drama, as we call it, and pent up spending energy. I also had the same boring thing with my finances. So I took and played with some stuff, small percentage because like what I've been doing has gotten me to where I'm at, but it is boring.

Dr. Jay

It's why, by the way, I keep 10% of my money for playing. I call it gambling money. That way, if you're going to gamble on investments and put your money in and out of stocks, the best place to do that is usually in an IRA because then you don't impact your taxes. We’ll do this with clients like, here's your little fund, go do whatever you want with it.

If it goes to the moon, awesome. If it goes to zero, doesn't matter. Yeah. People are like, wait what? I’m like just here, ignore the rest. And it's hard because we get stuck in, like, keeping up with the Joneses and hey, I need a new blah, blah, blah, if you really want it as part of your goals, let's do it.

But this is literally the moment people like, I had to go buy a Ferrari. Okay, then you're giving up on that world cruise you wanted to do. They’re like, no, I'm not doing that. I'm like, you are because you have to make a choice between them or then they say, well, I want to… you know, I have this one common, “I want to do this investment with my friend.” Okay, we're going to throw away money by giving it to your friend, they’re like, oh, it's a great idea. And I'm like, it might be, but investing with friends is a good way to lose your friends. Kind of how it works. You need to stop and go, is this part of my plan and do you need to change it?

So I had one the other day, a reporter emails me and says as they were doing like an ask the advisor thing like hey inflation is coming down, should I change my stuff? I'm like, Is there anything wrong with your investments? No. Then why are you messing with it? And that's the hard part. John Bogel, don't just do something, stand there. You know, like just do nothing. It works. But that is so far against human nature, like Bri’s gambling with her stocks now too.

Bri

Just a little bit.

Dr. Jay

Only a small percentage.

Bri

Yeah, like 1%, I think. Very small.

Dr. Jay

I don't know. Bri, what do you think? I mean, you've been through the boring middle, you've had the freak out, like, literally the freak out.

Bri

Yeah.

Dr. Jay

What's your advice on this?

Bri

I think it can be helpful to have somebody else who looks at it from outside perspective because, like, this is literally my job. But even when it comes to my own stuff, I can be irrational and emotional about it. And so it's always… no matter what you do, it can always be helpful to have somebody else as a third party who can look at it from a non-emotional perspective and be like, okay, listen, like you're being irrational right now. And these are...

Dr. Jay

By the way, we don't actually say, “You're being irrational.” Like if you say that, they're just pissed off.

Bri

No, yeah, that's true. Well, I'd probably say that, but I don’t have anybody who's being irrational.

Dr. Jay

This week.

Bri

Yeah, this week. But it can be helpful to have that and just have a straight shooter. Okay, listen, let's do this. Let's keep going. If you need to release some of that, then alright, but let's do it in a way that's not going to harm your finances long term.

Dr. Jay

Yeah. And by the way, here's some clues to know when you're doing it. When you start doing kind of the martyr path. Oh, I got no money to spend on my hair, my makeup, my chicken nuggets like you're in that stuff. People will always do this like, really, this budget is so crazy. I don't have money for x, y, z thing they love to do.

I'm like, Are you kidding me? But what they're doing is they're using that as a scapegoat or, you know, just a… to say it. And I'm like, wait a minute, you do have that money. You've chosen something else. And they're like, but I can't get my hair done. And I'm like, just shave it all off, we’re good. Like no…

Bri

Oh my gosh.

Dr. Jay

Like.

Bri

He'll send you a pack of free razors don't worry.

Dr. Jay

Makes it cheap. Well, like, it's always the excuse you know, or like all of this with my wife, where, like, “If I don't do X, you're going to hate me and divorce me.” And I'm like, “Wait what? Like, no, she… that's where your fine we can make changes. Like we're good.” You know, if I work an extra hour less, I'm like, well, then so what like, it doesn't change anything. If I buy it extra, it's not going to.

Now, we don't want to go to extremes, but we need to have that awareness. I think the other thing is I don't know how to do this, but you need to like stop watching the news. If you're invested for the long run. My stocks, I put my money to stocks. I will take it out when I need the money. Decades. What's going on in the world doesn't matter.

Because it's part of the plan. The only time you change your financial plan is if the core assumptions have changed. We're in a really weird time in the world and some things are up in the air and like, I don't know, the news is just terrible. Every time you turn it on. The stock market is doing just what the stock market does. It goes up over time. Sometimes it goes down, sometimes it goes up. There’s a book called Random Walk Down Wall Street. They did a whole lot of technical analysis. They found the stock market essentially is a random walk up to the right, just goes up over time. That's all. What's going on in the world is not the time to do it.

Now, I've had people try to time the market and they’re like, “Oh, this is going on, so I need to sell everything.” I'm like, “Well, two things you need to make sure you know when to sell it and when to buy back. Is your crystal ball that good?” They go, “No.” “Then just ride it out.” But that's not what we're built to like.

As the numbers get bigger, they're like, “I need to do fancier things.” No you don’t. Simple passive investing works, low cost, low fees, set it and forget it. But that's too boring, right? How do we make, like, the boring stuff fun or. I don't know, like, how do we, like, make it sexy to do nothing.

Bri

I think sometimes you need to do whatever is bugging you and then it doesn't. It won't. After you do it, it'll be like, Oh, okay, now I did it. with my whole, like gambling money, as we call it recently. Like I did what I wanted to do. I bought the things I wanted to buy, and now I haven't even looked at them since then, but I just felt like I needed to do it just because I want to.

Dr. Jay

Keep in mind, this is exactly and watch out for. We call it scratching the itch. You know, if you need to scratch that itch, maybe within a certain realm. So if someone says, I got to… I actually had somebody recently that said, “X-Y-Z is going on politics,” you know, fill in the blank. There's always… “I need to sell everything and go to cash.” Alright. Well, that's an itch we're not going to scratch. You know, if you truly believe that, then when do you buy back? “Well, when the environment is better,” I'm like, “And when do you think that's going to be?” And that's the hard part. That's where I'm like, okay, can we do something else that makes you feel safe?

You know so I’ve had people I'm worried about X. Well then maybe we get insurance for that or we move or we adjust the jobs or adjust whatever. And I think it's one of those things where like, I hate to say it, but I see it a lot in the elderly folks we work with where they watch something on TV and next thing you know, I'm like, I need you do.

And I'm like, I can tell what channel you are watching now. No, like, literally I can. There's certain trends.

Bri

It’s very apparent.

Dr. Jay

Like, alright, so we know where that came from.

Bri

Yeah.

Dr. Jay

And it's like, well, no, it didn't. I wasn’t watching that channel. My friend said, I'm like, well, then your friend was watching that channel. I'm not judging any channel shows whenever I was like, these things like or it might be or this influence or whatever, it's just, just set it, let it go and do nothing. You're fine, but let's be real, Bri, could you have worked through the chicken nugget issue without outside help?

Bri

No, because I was too close to the situation and I would have… I wouldn’t have been rational about any of that.

Dr. Jay

And so we meet with our clients on a monthly basis and I've had some people go, hey, my finances are good, can I leave and not not pay you money? I'm like, yes, you can. Well, here's the problem. We don't know when the chicken nuggets are going to hit. No, I mean, that's the truth of it.

Bri

It's very true.

Dr. Jay

Having a monthly check in to go. Yep we’re good can stop people from doing stupid stuff. I still let people do stupid stuff if it's not going to hurt them. Like sometimes it’s like, yep, go ahead, do that and I'll see you in a month when we see the results. There's sometimes I just I'll win that. But I think that's the hard part that people go well, but does that mean I have to have a financial planner forever? No, but it's up to you and your nature. There are some people that are phenomenal just set it, forget it, and let it go. Cool. Then there's the rest of us that need like a check. You know, I have coaches that I work with. I have, you know, I have a mastermind group I meet with every two weeks, like, you know, different. actually.

Actually, I have another one that I meet with weekly, like where we go and talk to other people, you know, in the financial world. I'm like, so I'm thinking of this and I've had, I had somebody recently go, yeah, that's stupid. And I'm like, okay, thank you for that feedback. Why? You know, that's like that. Yeah. So you just figure out a support structure to get you through the boring middle.

And by the way, when it comes to boring middle, watch out also for your parents in this. When they go into retirement and they've lost their job, whatever. You know that, too. Now they start tinkering with their finances. Oh, no, please don't. Please just stop like you're fine. Don't mess with it. You need to watch out for others to do that.

And you know, if you can help, you can always reach out. We'll actually got a link here for, you know, we can help you through it, but I want you to be aware of this and you need at least an accountability partner who can stop you from losing the world over chicken nuggets.