Childfree Wealth®

Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers (Book Club)

• Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP® & Bri Conn • Episode 52

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​​The Childfree Wealth Podcast, hosted by Bri Conn and Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®, is a financial and lifestyle podcast that explores the unique perspectives and concerns of childfree individuals and couples. Join as they discuss Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers by Sara Zeff Geber, PhD.


While Bri thinks the title is a bit misleading, and discusses the emphasis placed on couples. She challenges the notion that those in dual-income households will eventually be solo agers, noting the resource disparities between DINKS and true soloists. Dr. Jay gets caught in the introvert-extrovert battle when it comes to community building & the ethical dilemma of depending on friends to care for you. Throughout the book you’ll find three common themes: community, health, & planning. While you may not be actively thinking about aging, Dr. Geber has also provided a variety of resources that can be helpful in preparing for the future.


Resources from the book:


Read next month's book with us, Get Good with Money by Tiffany Aliche!

The Childfree Wealth Podcast, hosted by Bri Conn and Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®, is a financial and lifestyle podcast that explores the unique perspectives and concerns of childfree individuals and couples.

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Dr. Jay

Hey Childfree Wealth listeners, we are back with the book club and this month we looked at Sarah Gerber's PhD, Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers. And I had recommended this book to somebody on Facebook recently. This book came out in 2018. They're like, Hey, does this is still hold up? And I think so. And I think it's full of a lot of great stuff for us.


But. Bri, what do you think?


Bri

Overall, I thought it was a good book and it was very informative, had a lot of details in there, but I do think the title was a little bit misleading, especially because it says, “A retirement and aging roadmap for single and childless adults.” And she talked a lot about couples in there, and I think that is kind of unfair to put that on your cover and then talk a lot about couples.


Dr. Jay

That's fair. I mean, I don't know. It's interesting, throughout the book, there's this discussion a lot about friends and groups and couples and people. And essentially her belief is if you're going to retire. Well, and that, by the way, this is not about finance, really. But if you retire well and age well, you need a community. So she talks a lot about community and the people around you.


So I'm not surprised that has couples in there. You're right. It is not a just a soloist book, you know, but it's kind of a somewhere in between. But at least it's talking about childfree childless or aging without kids. Is that fair?


Bri

Yeah. And I like that. It’s just… she talked about, well, everybody's going to be a solo artist at one point and kind of really harped on that idea in the beginning. And while that is true, most of us eventually will either pass and will be, you know… our partner will be alone or we’ll be alone. I don't think that it is fair to say that you are a soloist throughout your life because your ability and resources are different, especially if you are in a dual income household.


Talking so much about couples and everything and well, they're going to be soloist too isn't fair when as a couple you have more time to build up resources. And that's not the reality for soloists.


Dr. Jay

Yeah, and just a terminology thing. So we use the term soloists instead of saying solo agers, because some people, you know, I don't want to age, so I'd rather be a soloist. But we're really talking about people who have no kids, no spouse, no partner, and are doing it on their own, which, by the way, about 32.1% of childless folks will never marry.


So I think you're right. That is different for the people that will never be in a dual income and the people that were. And then something changed or life or divorce or widowed or you're right, there is a difference. But then there's also some things that are similar.


Bri

Yeah, I agree with that.


Dr. Jay

My first read on this book, what was amazing to me is it's really written for boomers and it literally talks about talking to boomers. So I was really interested to see how that hit you, because it is… I mean, I'm Gen X and closer to the boomers much more than you are. How'd that hit you?


Bri

Honestly, I didn't really think about it too much until you had said something. And just for listeners, typically we don't talk about the books before we record them. And while we did have a brief conversation earlier on, when we were still both working through reading this on it. But normally I don't know opinions. So after I heard that, then I did think more about it as I read it.


But I don't it didn't really bother me that much because I have a very strong belief that not every piece of content is made for every single person, and you have to be able to distinguish that. And you can't just be offended by things and upset with everything. Like, yes, it's talking to boomers, but it is still applicable and still has good points.


Dr. Jay

But the Internet has taught me you can be offended about everything. So you just said.


Bri

I don't live by that.


Dr. Jay

By the way, if you're thinking about, hey, should I read this book? One of the questions that to me is like who this serves best? And it's really kind of people in the mid-fifties, the sixties, kind of looking at what's that last third of my life look like and how do I do as that? Is that a fair assessment?


Bri

Yeah, it definitely spoke more to that. I thought it was still beneficial to learn from that though, and learn from somebody who has that life experience.


Dr. Jay

Yeah, she's looking at it from, you know, kind of a Ph.D. research, sociology, science, psychology, life perspective, not necessarily a financial perspective, which is, by the way, why this book doesn't really age much, because most of it is the same. You had three things you took out of it. What's your first one?


Bri

Yeah, the first one is build a community for yourself, because having a social connection is really important for aging and just the life in general. So getting out, joining groups, building different communities is essential.


Dr. Jay

Okay, so how are you doing that?


Bri

Oh, I am a big trivia fan. I'm horrible at trivia, but I just like to go to talk to people. I’m in plenty of hiking groups that I go to. I talked about it before, I definitely prioritize seeing people and seeing friends and getting out. How are you doing that?


Dr. Jay

Yeah, I'm much more of an introvert and I'm like, I'm reading this chapter on the connection in the community and all that. And this is where I have a little bit of a love hate thing going on with this book of she's really from a building community, so you can rely on that. That almost feels a little icky to me, like if I'm making friends just so that I can rely on them to give me a ride to the doctor's office.


I don't know. It doesn't feel right now. By the way, I'm also the person where if I'm your friend, I will offer to drive you to the doctor's office. The friends that I make right now, I love taking care of and getting to know the people. You know, seventies, eighties, nineties, the older usually guys and helping them out.


And that is a role I enjoy doing. I don't know about asking other people for it and I don't know, maybe that's just me. I mean, her argument is because you're solo, you have to build that network. And then I go, yeah, but maybe the definition of friends or networks or communities are shifting. I mean, do you see it at all Bri what I'm talking about?


Bri

Yeah. And I think you have to be careful, too. Like she does talk about, you know, relying on them have to be careful to recognize that you don't necessarily need to only build a community just to rely on somebody else to help you with things like I will absolutely do things for people love to help out friends, but just that social aspect and social wellbeing and then mental stimulation is important too.


And so getting out and meeting people and learning things because people with different life experiences, especially if they come from different backgrounds as you can teach you so much and make you grow so much, and that's important.


Dr. Jay

Okay, but this is the introvert extrovert in us fighting because I deal with different people all day long. You know, we'll go through five or six client meetings on a rough day and plus, like I’ve gotta deal Bri all day long. I'm joking. But, you know, like.


Bri

I'm the hardest one.


Dr. Jay

I deal with people all day long. The introvert nature of me, when I get done with this, I am like, Let me go veg, watch some TV, play some video games, hang out. I am not going out on Thursday night to a trivia. I'm asleep by 9:00, I'm in bed by 8:15. I mean, I read her stuff and I'm like, good concept, but I'm also it's not for me.


Bri

Yeah. And I think that it's also like you see me as a very extrovert person and out there outgoing. But I also it's important to recognize that I wasn't always this way. And I have been very, very intentional, especially in the past year, about going out and meeting people and doing things and putting on my calendar. And it's been hard, but it's been good because even though, you know, it was really hard in the first few times I did, I would just sit in my car feeling numb with anxiety before I'd go into things.


Now it is much easier to do that. And yes, you know, we hear from people all day long, but at the end of the day, they're clients and we know a lot about them, but they don't know much about us. Like you and I both have never said our wife's name.


Dr. Jay

Like my wife prefers it that way. Like she gave me a lecture today. I told her I was recording a podcast. She said, don't talk about me. I'm like, oh, well, I can't promise that, you know?


Bri

Yeah, well, like, you and I both keep our wives very private. We don't talk about them and clients don't know that. And so it's not that I say yes but it's still not the same. Like you can't be a recluse. You’ve gotta go out & see people.


Dr. Jay

No seriously because like, because okay, this is what annoys me. People always want to change introverts, so like, don't just sit there. Go be part of the group. And I'm like, No, I'm perfectly fine at the party sitting with that corner, drinking a Diet Coke and watching the party.


Bri

Okay, That's literally what he does, because I've been at things with him


Dr. Jay

Literally she saw that at FinCon. I think that's a separate episode. We'll go there. But like, I'm actually okay with that. The old joke is introverts. We should unite when we want to in small groups. And none of the party like, you know, I mean, I hate to say it, but people like you are trying to change us and Sarah saying, hey, we need this community.


Bri

I'm not telling you.


Dr. Jay

So. So part of what I like with with the client record, you know, for those who don't add more to us, our relationship with our clients are deep. Okay? I mean, we know everything about them. We are in there. We are there for them. 110%. I actually like that. I'm able to protect, you know, kind of some of my own life, my things. And I've got boundaries at all that that works great. Do I want to do small talk with 100 people in a room? No.


Bri

I'm not saying go to a room with 100 people. I'm saying like even one or two.


Dr. Jay

We’ll go to trivia night with 50.


Bri

Oh, my God, no. You know, what I do at trivia? And I talk to my like, six friends that we all go together and…


Dr. Jay

I have friends that are online. I mean is that okay.


Bri

My point is just have like a few close connections. You don't have to have 10,000 friends. That's not what I'm saying. Just like some close connections you can talk to and it's not all work related.


Dr. Jay

Yeah, we will have to just agree to disagree on this. I mean, people who are childfree often ask kind of like, where do I make childfree friends? And that's a good question. That happens to be why I have friends that are older, that I think of the friends I have that are 80 plus and they have a whole bunch of grandkids, but it doesn't impact their life.


I've never met any of their grandkids. They don't care if I have kids. Probably people close to your age, they're dealing with their kids day in, day out. So it's a big difference, I think.


Bri

I have DINK friends.


Dr. Jay

Well, then you get lucky. I mean.


Bri

Yeah I have some aggressively DINK friends. Yeah that makes sense.


Dr. Jay

When I started this podcast, I was originally my cousin Matt, and Matt was in Denver and he started doing childfree meetups and he had a huge group get together now. I mean, huge in my mind. It's like 30 or 40 people, but I mean, like he had a huge group, like within weeks of announcing this meetup that happened or in the community, the ability group.


I think also you can have the online friends, the online groups that that if people I don't know that they're all the same or but then I have friends that are all over the country none of them are going to fly here to drive me in the doctor's office because that's part of what she's making this argument. This is one of those that I think her advice fits well for people who are good at making those connections.


I think the assumption that you need these connections and you need that community to be local, I don't know that I agree with it. You know, I'm thinking of some I work with and the husband is very much more like he's going to be on his own, like doing art in the corner. And his wife is a social butterfly.


That's okay, too. Yes. For the solo as it's more important. But if you're a soloist and introverted, that's another book, I guess.


Bri

Yeah, I guess so. It is not saying like they have to be in person or you have to go somewhere with 100 people, but just like I don't even care. We're close friends are my closest friend is 1000 miles away. That's fine, but just have somebody.


Dr. Jay

I have friends, make a something. I have no friends. I just knock on a trivia night and 50 people there. I don't. I'm one of those weirdos that, like, doesn't have kids, doesn't drink. So therefore, all of a sudden your opportunities for social become very limited.


Bri

Okay, I don't like to drink either, though, and I'll maybe have like one or two. Like I didn't drink for a few years, but I'll still go out just because I go to a brewery doesn't mean I have to order a drink. I can order a Diet Coke, which is my drink too, but you can still go out and do those things at places.


Dr. Jay

Alright. What's your second point in the book? I'm going to give in on a little bit, but go to the next one.


Bri

Okay. Number two, prioritize your health. Taking care of your physical and mental health on a regular basis is going to help you throughout your life.


Dr. Jay

I don't know any retiree book that it's not going to have that in there. Like that's not special to soloists.


Bri

Well, I know, but it's easily forgotten because we all are chasing things and... Okay, how many times do we talk about like making sure you're prioritizing your health both mental and physical? I… mental health. We talk about when it's like open enrollment are like, hey, you have ten free mental health visits, like go use them or go to your annual appointments and like preventatives.


But taking time to do that regularly throughout the year, not just when you're like, oh yeah, I get it free because of my insurance. We don't really ever mention that. 


Dr. Jay

That's fair. I mean, I think this is one of those things you also and I want to get set up as a primary care doctor. I was in my mid-thirties and went to the doctor and the doctor says, you're a mid-thirties male. You're here in my office. Either you are dying or your wife said, you have to go to the doctors.


And I was like, I'm not dying, you know, because, I mean, we have it all the time with clients. I tell guys, hey, you got to go to the doctor. And they're like, yeah, I'm fine. You know, my arm hasn’t fallen off. I'm good. And that's not the right thing. I agree. But I mean, I think I'm my neighbor, so I had a neighbor.


He was really nice guy, bought a property from him. He was seventy years old and lived on his own, happy he had kids. But, you know, they’d come visit. I was well, I went over and talked to him. All of a sudden, he had some medical issues come to find out he had like massive cancer and he goes to the hospital.


I went to see him. I said, Who was it? Hey, how you doing? I'm talking to his daughter. Turns out the last time he had seen a doctor was when he was enlisted in the Korean War, which is like, forever ago. And I found myself jealous because, Oh, here he is. 70 something, went 50 years without seeing a doctor, gets cancer, dies out. Gone.


And I'm like, you know, if you're going to be healthy, I mean, took no meds, nothing, you know, maybe an aspirin if you could be that healthy for your life. And then all of a sudden now I'm actually okay with that. Even if it's not the most amount of years. But I don't know that I follow. I mean, you know, he was a heavy drinker and a few other things, but, you know, we've all got our poisons.


But you're right that health balance is important and one that I don't take care of as much as I should be. Interesting thing is, it's mentioned in here now we're really talking about when you're 50 or 55 or 60, really what we should have a time when you're 30 or 40.


Bri

And I believe women start losing bone density when they turn 30. I want to say it's like pretty young. So you want to work on building a muscle. And like I'm a big proponent for strength training, all of those things to help you throughout your life.


Dr. Jay

One of the weird things I did for a while, I actually owned a kettlebell gym, and this is when Kettlebells first started coming out and I did the AKC in the RKC certification lab, and the trainer there said it this way. We had a lot of clients who are older. He says the most important thing to train yourself to do is get on and off the toilet.


He says, if you can't do that, everything else goes downhill. And I was like, huh? And then I start thinking about like, you know, that makes some sense. By the way, kettlebell work does a lot of hip work, a lot of squatting happens. So they work perfect for that. And I was like, ha, you don't think about the lack of mobility, all that.


So you can get off too. You need help, you need something there. And especially so as if there's a problem. He's right, by way, I'm not saying kettlebells is right for everybody, but it's just like one of those. Like it's one of those movements that we need to practice.


Bri

Yeah, and that is true. Like having a mobility. I had a trainer in college. This gym I went to while the guy from Boston heavy, thick accent and he would say different things and you can always understand him but one of the things he always made to very clearly say was get up and down off the ground ten times.


And that was part of almost every single workout was practicing, getting up and down, and then also not using your hands to get up and down.


Dr. Jay

That's fair. So, alright, we'll take care of our health and get friends, which, by the way, at this point I'm like, really? I read a whole book about getting friends and getting health.


Bri

Yeah.


Dr. Jay

What's the third point plan ahead?


Bri

Plan ahead. It's easier to make decisions before a crisis hits.


Dr. Jay

Talk to me about it.


Bri

Alright. Well, as with anything, let's say specifically talked about like end of life and long term care, if you ever had to move a family member into long term care. And it hasn't really been planned for, even if it is planned for, you know, it's not the most enjoyable experience. It's very hard on everybody. But having a plan and knowing what's going to happen or taking time to research things is much easier than all of a sudden going, oh, no, like we need to fix something today.


Dr. Jay

That's fair. I think the other thing I liked in here is that she had a really good explanation of different levels of care and facilities. So you often hear us talk about if you don't have a long term care plan, you end up in Medicaid care, which is not the top. She also talked about Medi-Cal because California has it’s own Medicaid. Yeah, not the best care.


Most of you want to stay at home, but that has a cost. You know, assisted living of skilled nursing facilities, all that. And one of the interesting things I didn't really thought about it in this way, but we had worked clients on it. But I think it's one of those where like probably to hold her a podcast that was she had talked about going into continuous care retirement communities, CCRCs.


And that's a fancy name for like the Villages or all these communities where you start in a 55 and older community name assisted living, then you have skilled nursing and keep going up. But a lot of these are kind of getting luxurious. It's kind of like if you got the money, you can get the good care. Now, by the way, our long term care system, broken needs get fixed like there's a whole bunch of issues.


But I was thinking about it for our clients and saying, what if we instead of setting the goal of making sure long term care is covered, shifted to okay. And by the way, you're going to get into one of the luxurious places versus being and you know, she had a quote in here from a story of somebody said, hey, you know, they moved to the facility. She checked with them and they said, how do you like it?


And they said, I wish I moved in earlier so I could take advantage of all the events, the things, all the social stuff that once us care. I'm like, that's actually interesting. And I think my aha, there was we're going to see a lot more of those now. Now by the way. It is a have and have not routine. I mean, I'm just saying it's a luxury thing.


Maybe we shift our clients and say, all right, let's save enough money or insure, or whatever it is to plan to get out. And I saw somebody recently who tried to get a place in Virginia. It was something like $600,000 to buy and plus a certain amount per month. So, I mean, we're not talking cheap, but then you get the higher level care and you can start at the 55 and older community and work your way up as you need it, which is actually a perfect solution for a soloist.


Just absolutely perfect. But it really means we got to put like $1,000,000 aside to get you into one of those because remember, long term care is increasing by 5% each year. So, you know, it's a big deal. But it was interesting to me to see the perspective of the different levels of care. What do you think?


Bri

Yeah, and she talked about I felt like she talked to all different levels of care twice in there, which was kind of annoying. It would have been nice to just have it once and then done but just like the longer thing I did. Like how she went through all of the different continuing retirement communities and then look what skilled nursing is or what, you know, having somebody come to your houses, all of those different things were very nice and well laid out.


I personally am a big fan of like the Villages set up, and I frequent the villages in Florida, which is a very odd statement.


Dr. Jay

Just for the fun of it?


Bri

My friend lives there. It's my place.


Dr. Jay

One thing she did get wrong is maybe not really wrong, but kind of wrong is you can actually get into 55 and older communities without being 55. Yes. So about 20% of the residents can be below 55. I always kind of joked, but I think it's not really a joke that 55 and older communities are perfect for childfree folks.


My wife and I like, we’re looking at moving. And I'm like, I saw this great place and it had a dining hall and all this. And then I realized I was 55 and all the community and I was like, It would be perfect for us. Like, it's got fun stuff to do. Got all the amenities, you know?


Bri

So I thought you weren't going to do the fun stuff, though?


Dr. Jay

I didn't say I was. But you see, my wife is more of a social butterfly, so she can go do those and then I can just go do my thing. You got to think about this. If you get those things for your wife to do, then you don't have to do it all.


Bri

I mean, mine comes along with me regardless. It's a, so you're coming.


Dr. Jay

The book, then, in Bri's world says, Have friends, keep healthy and get a plan.


Bri

Yep. Great. Way to sum it up.


Dr. Jay

One of the things I was looking for in here just because that's what I've been working on is what's her answer for who makes decisions for you when you can't. You know, I've been… 


Bri

Friends!


Dr. Jay

Like, literally, that is her answer.


Bri

Yeah, I don't agree with that answer.


Dr. Jay

But I was like, okay, there's millions and millions and millions of us childfree folks in the health care and the government in the long term care systems all assume you have next of kin and who makes decisions for you. Her answer was friends, her backup answer. So in California and Arizona, she quoted that you can get a professional fiduciary to do it for you.


In some other states, you may have a voluntary guardianship or conservatorship, which is essentially the person the court would appoint to you. But you choose to do that. But that only really covers you when like something really bad is happening and I was disappointed. I'm not really. I was looking for her to have an answer that I've been looking for for two years and I haven't found, and she didn't find it either.


So like, it's kind of like I'm disappointed for the Childfree community and we're actually working on creating a new product to help childfree folks with this and stay tuned. By this time next year, we'll probably have it out. But we're trying to solve this problem because it's a huge issue for the solo, is if you don't have a friend or family member you trust to make decisions for you, the government's making the decisions for you, which I don't trust at all, and there's not a great option.


I mean, did you see anything in there besides find a nice friend?


Bri

No. Did not have a great option for any decision making, which was unnerving.


Dr. Jay

Though, were the one thing they did mention is the golden girl set up. So, yeah, we're going to co house. We're going to share easily enough. There are some links and we'll put them in the show notes of like essentially like friend finders but for senior living. So you're like, I want to find a friend to live with.


But that was actually a really cool idea. I'm like, I like that. And maybe you have a group of four people and you're all like watching out for each other. Then they had example where like somebody in the group got sick and they're taking care of them. That's a valid answer. Not for everybody. I think that's the hard part of that.


They also talked about, you know, the old school communes and different ways and financial communities. Those are all ways to do this. The problem is the health care, the legal system not really well set up to handle people without a next of kin, you know, they just blow up and that's kind of like criticism of this book is yeah, I agree with you.


You have good health, have some friends. But then we get to the reality and whatever else. You know what, if the friend I made dies before me, then I have nobody to make it for me. I mean, am I crazy here?


Bri

Yeah, it doesn't really work in a circular fashion, because if you're going to put your friend & they're going to put you, well one of you has to die first. So things aren't going to work.


Dr. Jay

Yeah. She does a great job of addressing a lot of the issues, but this is one of those that I don't think she I mean, she talked about professional guardianships, but those aren't really huge option, a great option either. And it depends on the state if you cross state lines becomes a problem. The problem I'm trying to solve is my wife and I in our car now, I'm 45, so I don't have a professional guardian because I'm not old like the book says to do. Although Bri thinks I’m really old.

So say we're in a car. We get in a car crash, who makes medical decisions for us, who pays our bills and who comes to our apartment and lets our dog go? That those are the questions that are the hard ones. You're so the same problem If you're a soloist and you're traveling, will they even know where you are or where your dog is or what your life is or whatever?


Dr. Jay

That's the one that keeps me up at night is trying to solve that problem. But I was hoping Sarah would have it. I'm not I'm not judging her because it's there's not really an answer. But if she had researched it too, I was like, okay, cool. Find me the answer. And it didn't get there. Is that fair?


Bri

That is definitely fair. I think the book could have been aimed at younger people and like with the things I took away from it because at the end it didn't really give you an answer of what to do or who turn to.


Dr. Jay

So what's your rating on the book?


Bri

Three.


Dr. Jay

Three stars, that's not great.


Bri

I know. It was just okay, like I wasn't overly in love with any of it, but I didn't think it was bad. I think it had a lot of good links, and some of the articles that it mentioned were interesting to read and had good tables, but sometimes it got to be a little bit long at times.


Dr. Jay

Alright, so three stars and who would you recommend it to or not recommended to kind of like who should read it and who should.


Bri

I honestly think for most books, everybody can read because they can take something away from it or learn something. And even if you don't, you can be like, well, at least you got a taste of a different perspective. But primarily those like closer to your age, the Gen-X and…


Dr. Jay

Older than me. Okay, Like seriously, like the fifties, sixties. I’m not that old yet.


Bri

Yes, you're not old, but that's a good time to start thinking about it, because we always talk about having a plan in place for long term care by your mid-forties.


Dr. Jay

You know, you're probably right somewhere in the mid forties. But I don't really want to read about old time life yet. It is the nature. I think you're right. Something mid-forties fifties would be kind of going, how do I do this? Great. It doesn't address the financial component, which is we've got some other resources on that. So go into it assuming it's about life and retirement and how that works. It's got a little bit in there about finding a financial planner. Some of that data is a little old. My recommend is always to find an advice-only Financial planner if you’re childfree, but that's a separate thing. But overall, to me it's a great read for childfree folks. A little different perspective.


You're probably right. It's a little more than just the soloists. You can go there. Alright Bri you've got our next book. She's got a book assigned for me I think it comes from Instagram.


Bri

So this was… we put a poll out on Instagram or a question box for people to answer. But our next book is Get Good with Money by Tiffany Aliche. So we'll be reviewing that for December.


Dr. Jay

Alright, I will pick it up. I'll start reading and we'll have to see if we trust the wisdom of the crowd. So if you have another book recommendation, throw in the show notes, throw it in Instagram, whatever on the social things, whatever. I don't know any of the socials. Bri makes fun of me for it & says I'm old because I don't know socials, but that's okay. Whatever social thinking we're about, you're supposed to do that and we will pick it up as our book after that.


People on this episode

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Dr. Jay Zigmont, CFP®

Host
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Bri Conn

Co-host